Microsoft Sued Over Windows 10 Support

Microsoft Sued Over Windows 10 Support

John Lister's picture

A Windows 10 user is suing Microsoft for the "forced obsolescence" of cutting support for his two laptops. Lawrence Klien says it's an anticompetitive attempt to dominate the generative AI market.

The lawsuit seems to be more about making a point than changing Microsoft's plans. It isn't seeking a financial fortune and the timeline makes it almost impossible it will have a practical effect.

Klein makes many valid points in his filing, most of which will be familiar to those who've followed the story. His two laptops cannot upgrade to Windows 11 because they don't have TPM (trusted platform module), which is a hardware security feature.

He argues this will unnecessarily make them obsolescent when Microsoft stops supporting Windows 10. Officially that takes place at the end of October, 2025, though the company is offering a year of additional security updates for consumers in return for paying a fee, redeeming Microsoft Store points (which can be earned by using Bing for searches) or backing up Microsoft settings to the cloud. All these options require creating a Microsoft account, which is not strictly necessary to run Windows 10.

Legal Challenge

The problem is that while this is a good argument that Microsoft is behaving in a consumer unfriendly way, it doesn't necessarily mean they are doing anything legally wrong. Klein uses a slightly indirect argument that Microsoft is exploiting its dominance in one area (operating systems) to try to gain similar monopoly power in another (generative AI).

He notes Microsoft is effectively making Windows 11 the only supported system just four years after its release, which he cites as evidence of an unusual and deliberate move given it's normally been seven or eight years before that happens. (Source: pcgamer.com)

He then says this is being done to get more people using Microsoft's Copilot AI system. He even argues that Microsoft deliberately stopped supporting Windows 10 was because existing machines don't have a special chip which gives the best performance on Copilot. That's a bit of a stretch because even people buying a new machine to get Windows 11 aren't being forced to buy these special machines known as Copilot+ devices.

No Financial Demand

Often consumer cases against tech giants seek to collect huge damages, get class action status to allow thousands of other users to join the claim, or both. That's not what Klein is doing. He's not only asking for his legal fees to be covered, but for the court to order that it can't stop supporting Windows 10 until less than 10% of Windows users are still running the system. (Source: courthousenews.com)

The big problem is that even if a court did agree to that request, its highly unlikely the case would be completed (let alone the inevitable appeals heard) until after October, 2025, at which point the order would be too late. At that point the only way to achieve Klein's demand would be to make Microsoft refund people who'd paid the fee for extended security support, something a court would likely be much more hesitant to do.

What's Your Opinion?

Should this lawsuit succeed? Does it matter why Microsoft is really pulling the plug on Windows 10 support? Is such a case the best way to try to influence Microsoft's policies?

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Comments

Dennis Faas's picture

Think back to the VHS vs. Betamax (Beta) format war in the 1980s. Both were video cassette standards, but only one became the industry default.

Even though Betamax had some technical advantages, VHS became the mainstream choice. That meant anyone who had invested in Beta hardware eventually had to replace it, because new movies and new equipment were only being produced for VHS.

Now compare that to Windows 10 vs. Windows 11 with the TPM requirement:

Windows 10 machines without TPM 2.0 are like old Betamax players - they still work, but the ecosystem is moving on.

Windows 11 with TPM 2.0 is like VHS - it's the standard going forward, and Microsoft has tied future updates and compatibility to that platform.

Just like Beta owners eventually had to buy VHS players to keep up with new releases, Windows 10 users with non-TPM machines eventually have to replace their PCs (or run unsupported) to stay compatible and secure, or switch to another operating system like Linux.

Should Beta users be able to sue Betamax manufacturers? I don't think so. Does it suck that (likely) millions of people are going to have to go and buy a new computer hardware because of it? Yes. Even so, tech from 2016ish (when TPM 2.0 started becoming the norm) is quite outdated compared to today's processors and architecture, especially gen4 and gen5 NVMe and DDR4 and DDR5 memory.

ehowland's picture

I have two 2017 machines with TPM2.0, both failed for their CPU (TPM is fine, both have NVMe). 2018 and newer hardware only, all 2017 and previous hardware is now no good, is that reasonable? I get it for cheap systems and most laptops, but high end devices being trashed at 7 years? 10-12 years for a good desktop is typical. Slighty less for a laptop. I help with a small MSP, of 100 machines all used for work (most SoHo) about 10 are Win11 now, 50 are landfil aimed, about 35 are POSSIBLE upgrades (this takes 2+ hours if no issues). I am not sure on the balence, it is a big issue.

Question Dennis Faas: IYO is Win10 forced to Win11 (using Rufus or Flyby11 etc.) on unsupported hardware (say 2017 hardware, say only a pre2018 CPU) with a good centrally managed AV, good enough? (meaning devices have secure boot, and at least TPM1.2)

I think it is, other techs I work with are hesitant. Your thoughts Dennis?

BTW the Beta VS VHS analogy was great

Dennis Faas's picture

If Microsoft doesn't support the processor, then one of two things will likely happen:

1. Certain updates won't install (which means bugs won't be squashed or security will be compromised), certain parts of the operating system won't work or will be missing, the system may be unstable, or you may experience random crashes, or

2. If the CPU is missing certain instruction sets (such as MBEC - mode-based execution control), then the CPU will be operating at an estimated 15% slower than a modern CPU with MBEC, and

3. There is a risk that Microsoft may release an update at some point which will make Windows 11 useless unless you have a modern CPU installed.

We are talking $500ish dollars or less for a modern PC (even a mini PC with good specs will do), so it might be worth updating.

ehowland's picture

I agree 100% on a $500 MiniPC ($500 alone on a MiniPC actually gets a pretty nice one, solid mid range). I did not know specifically about MBEC, but my thought is a very strong high end 2017 PC that CRUSHES (say gamer spec) the needs otherwise (say it was $2000-$3000. My fear is I put in the work or hassle to force W11 on an unsupported CPU (where the device is 2017, has TPM 2.0 and meets all other requirements) and someupdates basically bricks them so they no longer update. Yes if a device is 10+ years old move on, but 7? (keep in mind many 2017 PCs only got purchased in 2018).

One last question is a W10 PC not as secuire as W11?

russoule's picture

Dennis, you certainly have a point about equipment becoming obsolete. But let's imagine, for a moment, that the powers-that-be decided they preferred BETA and told all the VHS owners to "pound sand". There might very well be legitimate reasons to make BETA the "standard" for video-tape, but what would the VHS owners reaction be? And in addition, the VHS Standard was a "market induced" standard, not a tape-maker forced standard. It was the marketplace that decided it preferred VHS and forced the tape producers to change NOT the other way around like this OpSys. Indeed, I believe if WIN11 were so freaking great, the public would be clamoring to change equipment in order to use it. A better analogy would be if the major oil companies decided their new products would only run on hydrogen gas and all auto owners would need to upgrade to hydrogen-powered vehicles within 2 or 3 years.

OadbyPC's picture

Your analogy only works if Betamax & VHS were made by the same supplier; in which case people would be perfectly entitled to ask for their money back if they were told they had to junk their Betamax player after only 4 years!

nospam_5346's picture

The true argument is that Microsoft sold Windows 10 as “the last version of Windows”.

Then they came out with Windows 11 and are making Windows 10 obsolete.

Microsoft should be required to support what they said was the last version of Windows as long as they are in business.

It was deceptive advertising at best.

ehowland's picture

Great point @nospam_5346, I forgot, you are right!

jpkirkpatrick_12469's picture

My argument exactly.
If MS wants to have Windows 11 with the hardware requirements, thats fine, but they MUST MAINTAIN WINDOWS 10 as they had an implied contract with those who bought into WIN 10.

Whats to say that they won't come up with a windows 12 that requires some video cpu protect and requires new equipment so their Window 12AI will run better but is not backwards compatible.

Now we find that some Computers that is running Windows 11 will be obsolete because they need a newer CPU for their Copilot AI program.... I'm 76-years old, I'll just go to not using a computer on-line!

n7mpj's picture

My laptop has the same problem: I don't have TPM (trusted platform module), which is a hardware security feature and am running win10 on an ASUS ROG that has a lot of memory and ghz.
However I did get a Win11 ASUS ROG because this one is 11yrs old and is probably going to peter out anyways. :-)

bill-marrob's picture

It's not just Micro$oft who're pushing the envelope.

XPwas a great OS and, along a good AV and FW, I never had an infection. However, eventually my bank refused to accept it 'for security reasons' (mine, not theirs), forcing me to update to Win-7. Now with the recent Win-7 EoL several other companies are forcing me to upgrade to Win-10.

And come October???

russoule's picture

What would the public do if their $35,000 gas-burning Cross-over suddenly could NOT purchase gasolene? If the refineries concluded that producing regular and unleaded gas was not in their best interest and therefore all vehicles MUST convert to diesel forthwith. Would the public agree that gas-burners were obsolete and should fill the various junk-yards and land-fills? And yet that is exactly what is happening when MS declares its operating system to be obsolete and all previous computers are to be scrapped, for what else can you do when you purchase that glorious w11 machine that runs circles around your old w10 machine?

ehowland's picture

Good point